Interview recorded 15 May 2020
Introduction
Danielle Greason is a very experienced and successful Virtual Assistant (VA) and manager who now shares her knowledge and wisdom with others through her VA Lifestyle Design training program – The Online Biz Skills. Having raised a family with her partner Dan while living overseas and developing her independent working lifestyle, she now brings a wealth of knowledge and wisdom through her online training program on how to succeed with this.
Danielle is passionate about the freedom lifestyle where people can take more control of their working lives and become partially or fully independent of the 9 to 5 grind they may find themselves in. Working online means you can set your own hours, work from home or anywhere in the world (if or when possible), and embrace the journey and responsibility of running your own business.
There can be quite a steep learning curve to all this, but from my own personal experience of taking the course and transitioning myself into full-time independent work living in Bali, it is definitely one well worth taking!
In this multi-part interview, you will find great advice through Danielle’s stories and experience. If you are wondering what it is like to work online, then please read on! Even if you have no online skills and are wondering how you can create an income for yourself during these uncertain times, you will find much inspiration on how you can start as a Virtual Assistant working online.
The challenges of making the transition
David:
Hi Danielle and thank you for joining me today to chat about working online, and the current challenges we may face during these times of coronavirus pandemic and lockdowns.
Danielle:
Thank you David. Yes, one of the key things is that you can adapt your income if you’re having a personal challenge. You can work more when you’ve got an extra expense, you can adapt the characters and the personalities you’re integrating with for it to be congruent with you.
For me, it’s like yeah cool, be a digital nomad, live overseas or whatever, but the big thing is you’re independent to adapt the variables to work for you regardless of the dynamics of life. At a certain stage everyone goes through personal and health challenges, and everyone goes through either an expanded family situation where you’re needing to help someone with your time etc. You just realise how big of a deal it is then to have that self-reliance and to not be going like ‘I’ve got to quit my job’!
One of the key examples was where we developed the awareness of how much it meant to us as a family, and also for me personally, was when I was pregnant with our third child in Costa Rica and I got really sick. I had had morning sickness with the first two, and I heard that it could be severe, but just didn’t expect it. I don’t know just because he was a boy or what, but I was super sick. I had already set up client relationships where there was some kind of trust there, so I reduced work volumes because they were able to allocate that work to another freelancer. In this situation where freelancers and business owners collaborate, there’s flexibility there. It’s not just like being replaced, but they understand I had to pull back my hours and it was alright. They could allocate certain tasks and I was able to keep working.
We didn’t want to have to actually come back to Australia, we were absolutely loving our lifestyle there and we knew it was going to be temporary, but it was such a big deal. There are so many times when you have to make a drastic change to deal with any type of personal challenge, and we just felt that flexibility in terms of income, location, hours, who you’re supporting or how deep you’re going with a certain business owner. Like being fully in there helping them plan or just being the support person or implementor to get tasks done.
You can slide the scale back and forth to either help them plan, or being the implementor ‘get-it-done’ type person.
So depending on what situation you’re in personally or as a family, you can slide the scale back and forth. Being able to do this had just been huge, just realising just how many times that has allowed us to navigate the challenges more smoothly.
David:
Yeah, I can totally relate to those challenges that are definitely there. I’ve just experienced one with a neck issue that came up that just stopped me doing client work for a while. I just couldn’t function and had these huge headaches and muscle spasming going on. So I understood how valuable the relationship is that I have with my clients when something like this comes up and suddenly you can’t deliver.
Danielle:
Yeah, but if it’s something that is truely urgent that effects their business if you don’t fulfil that, then of course they’ve got options, because that’s how it works right? Or you maybe in the position to make a referral. If it’s like a project they want to get off the ground but is not going to stop their business operations or whatever they do to generate revenue, then if they have that trust and that affinity with you, of course they are going to understand. Is that what you found to be true?
David:
Yeah, it does go both ways. I really value the client relationship that you build and they end up putting a lot of trust in you, and it’s like your call. They trust that you’ll get the job done no matter what, whether you get someone else to do it when you can’t do it or not. It really showed me just how much they trust you, rely on you, and value what your skills. And I think in the beginning you doubt yourself a lot, like imposter syndrome, but it just showed me that people are very flexible and they are understanding, and I feel like wow – the relationship I have with this client is actually really good. You know?
Care Factor
Danielle:
Yeah, you’ve probably heard me talk about my phrasing of “care factor”. I don’t know if you’ve used that terminology, but like, when we were kids and someone would say “care factor zero” that it meant they didn’t care at all, but I’m not sure that’s still around?
David:
Haha, oh yeah, I know it!
Danielle:
Yeah, but for me when I say “care factor” I don’t mean “care factor zero”, I mean maximum care factor, like the other end of the spectrum! So it’s like if you have care factor, and like, a lot of care factor because you’re service oriented and you’re driven to help, and that’s really fulfilling for you.
You’re there like “hmmm… how can I figure it out for this person (client)”, and you send them an email letting them know that it’s done. It’s that kind of intrinsic drive to be of service and contribute.
If you have that care factor, it’s like clients, business owners and people can spot it a mile off.
And that was a massive thing that I saw in your communications with me, even though you had mentioned to me that you were just kicking off with learning some new skills and kicking it off as a client service. When you see that someone has care factor you just know they’re going to be overrun with work before they can blink an eye, because it’s just magnetic.
You know, for me, what I found is it’s not about experience level or skill level, but it’s actually even applicable for someone who is doing customer service emails and they’ve got no understanding of WordPress or any system you work in online from a technical, creative or marketing perspective, they’re just like “hey, I can reply to people who are writing in”, because this is part of how I started off in that type of work. And then someone said “well, can you do the blog too?”. I was like “well, I just bought a copy of ‘Wordpress for Dummies’, so haha yeah, next week I’ll be onto the blog posts!”
But it all started off with the customer service. And for me it’s like even with something like customer service, it’s like, well, how is care factor going to play into that? Because time and time again I’ve seen in my own personal experience and from observing people that I’ve hired on behalf of a client or contracted myself, that as soon as you see that someone is really into it and they’re looking up the CRM (Customer Relationship Management software) themselves and saying here’s how I can help you. What happens is like “Oh cool… and could you start doing the Social Media posts as well?”, or “That’s great… could you actually also help my friend?”. It’s like it just expands so rapidly, but in a fulfilling way for that person, and like yeah, that has been huge that the care factor is so apparent to everyone. We see it! And you see it when you walk into a hairdresser, and you can see it in people’s eyes.
What I found from working remotely in this digital world is that partly through your eyes, through photos people see of you when they connect to that, but as well as that, and I’d say even more so, is the tone of written communication. Would you think that that’s a kind of equivalent to feeling you get when you walk into a local business and you can see people’s care factor in their eyes, but you can also feel it in the way they write a quick message or email to you?
David:
Oh yeah. And even just the quality of the communication and the integrity of it, you know? Like, doing what you’re saying you’re going to do. And think this is one of the biggest things that I think we all face. We’ve all had experiences with business that you know you’re being lied to – they’re not going to call you back, they’re not going to do what they say. And there is so much of that kind of service out there that people become very skeptical and take a long time to trust. And when you do come across good service it’s like, wow!
Danielle:
Hahaha yeah, absolutely! It just blows you away. I love getting good service. I even had really good service at the Bank today. We needed some cash to buy a new car, and I thought oh, this is probably going to be an issue, and I’ll probably need way more I.D than I’ve got. But the woman that greeted me when I walked in was just so service oriented and so wonderful, it was like the easiest thing I’ve ever done. It’s funny because it was like, not a novel experience, but like revisiting that experience. It’s like what we were talking about before – I was reconnecting to Australian culture and thinking oh no, we have to go to the bank and I will have this negative experience – but it just made my day, I loved it! Even with a bank haha!!
David:
Wow yeah! They have a bit of a reputation, like nobody likes the bank. And they have this big perception to overcome like people think they will be ripped off, or they’re evil or whatever. So I can see to get that kind of service from a bank would be awesome, and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with something – that if people don’t have that (service orientation), then to at least become aware of it and to develop that so they can transition to working online. And as you say, they may not have a super-high skill level in certain areas, but working on their communication skill and doing what they say they are going to do is so important. It’s working on the integrity of their communication. It has certainly become apparent to me how important that is, and as you say, it is the primary thing that keeps you working with a particular client.
Communication
Danielle:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. In terms of income potential for sure, your capacity there increases as you become more technically skilled and the potential to charge more for your service is there, but for me, the biggest hinge is still on communication. I know some incredibly skilled people, but still find the communication part more challenging. But it’s not to say that skills and experience don’t factor in, but communication and integrity, it’s like yeah – even little things like the virtual head nod and acknowledgement, or something as simple as when an existing client sends a task over and you send the quick “Great, thanks – I’ll get this to you on Tuesday”. It’s just those simple phrases or one-liners and in some cases an emoji to finish off a conversation is so huge. A big question I get a lot of the time is “But isn’t everyone doing this?” And “But there’s no more space”.
But there’s always space for people who have that productivity and care factor. It’s just absolutely huge in terms of how people value that.
David:
Oh, very much. I have had experience with this as well when contracting for assistance through Upwork. It can be a little hard to find the right match with someone who has good communication and integrity. Often they don’t get back to your emails and you’re left wondering where they’re at. Not much care factor, you know?
Danielle:
Yeah, it’s not just Upwork either. That happens a lot and I still see it, constantly. The way I’ve often perceived it is like when people are overrun with work or they’re still building up their experience and confidence with the work, and so there is some self-doubt in the mix. Which means they will, not intentionally, but even subconsciously, just pull back what they initially stepped up to do. And I’ve always visualised it like stepping up to the table, right? Some people might call that ‘presence’ or just sitting with the discomfort of it. Whether it’s the discomfort of self-doubt or the discomfort of being overrun with too much work. It’s just going “ok cool, but if this is still my intention to set this up for my life and I can visualise that it can work for me, or I can see how it’s working for other people”, then sit with the discomfort but step-up and be stay present. You know what I mean?
That is how I’ve always visualised it, because often times when people say they are going to do something and they don’t do it, or they are not following instructions clearly, or whatever, what I’ve seen working closely with people that I am collaborating along side, it’s not always because they don’t have care factor or they are just disconnected or malice, it’s often times this distancing or getting in your own head that results from either fatigue from being over-worked, or fatigue from health issues, or the self-doubt, self consciousness of how that’s going to be perceived, and so delaying and going “I’ll get to that tomorrow”. The task is delayed not because they didn’t have the time to do it, but because they were still working through what they needed to to actually send it back to the client.
I’ve observed all that in myself as well, but it has definitely got a lot easier as the years have gone on, because I see “oh, there’s that little chatter”. You kind of get to know your own techniques for grounding that out of your body in order to stay present.
Being able to figure that out is such a huge deal, and that’s where I find a lot of these hiccups can come in is actually when people are new to working remotely. It’s just realising the discomfort is there, but staying present.
Like how I visualise it – stepping up to the table. You be the one that stands up and serves out the meal or whatever. It’s a weird analogy, but for some reason I just see it like that. Whereas if you maybe are coming in and going “What would you like me to do?”, or “Is there anything I can help with?”. You’re just waiting for the delegation or waiting for instructions or feedback, but forget all that. Just stand up to the table and you dish it out. And for me, it’s something I’ve seen as a common thread where people are not only working with clients they want to work with, but also sharing with me that they love what they do.
Self Awareness
David:
Yeah, that’s very interesting and another very big point about how to get into this (online/remote) work. Even with the current global lockdown situation and people who are faced with potentially having to move into this type of remote work that the dynamic is so different and it brings up a lot of stuff within you that you don’t expect. You don’t actually realise what to expect until you start doing it and you go through the process of setting up to work online or remotely. A lot of self-doubt creeps in along with chatter in the mind about the uncertainty. There are quite a few things to overcome and get a grip on that you’re not really prepared for.
Danielle:
Yeah, that’s so right. It’s so satisfying when you start to feel like you’re building awareness of yourself in that way. It’s like “Oh, I know how this works again… I need to exercise or get some sun, or I haven’t run for three days because I’ve been helping that client with that launch”… and I wonder why the mental chatter is back, hahah! Is it because I’m suddenly crap?, or is it because I haven’t run for three days or whatever it may be to look after yourself?
For me, it’s always got to be that blend of realising that physiology is in the mix with the practicalities of my skill level and comfort level.
I’ve found the physiology to be huge. It’s fascinating how self-doubt can be exacerbated by lack of sleep, lack of nutrients etc. It’s like, “huh, how did I get confident when I didn’t increase my skills?’. It’s really fascinating how intertwined the physiology is with the thought process, how people perceive you and how you are able to connect with them and build a stable income. It’s like SO integrated, it blows my mind!
David:
Yeah, I totally agree. These things they come to you with your experience . I’ve been through it too, where you work for days on end and haven’t even gone for a walk. You’re just too busy, busy, busy, and then it’s like…. “O-Oh, hang on”… I’ve got to look after my health otherwise I’ll not be able to function. There are a lot of things to consider to get the balance right. You become very responsible for yourself, for your energy.
Danielle:
Yeah, right. That’s a good way of looking at it… being responsible for your energy. It’s different when you know you have to be at work at 9am and can leave at 5pm, and every Thursday X amount of money will be in your bank account. It’s a totally different game, isn’t it.
David:
Yeah, it’s so very different it’s incredible. I don’t think I realised just how different it was going to be until I actually did it (left my full-time job and worked remotely as a freelancer). I liked that in your course (VA Lifestyle Design) that you talk about this sort of thing and preparing people for this type of work, and in particular, the change that might come up for them to face. It’s the lifestyle that is the biggest change and brings up the most challenges and new life skills to learn.
Danielle:
It’s actually been really fascinating to see a lot of viral videos going around of people on zoom calls and some of the funny things that happen. Like the situation where you’re ending a zoom call and you’re saying goodbye. Like, who ends the call first?… and the awkward way it can be sometimes to try and wrap up a call.
It’s those little moments of like ‘how does this work?’ that make it so interesting, hahaha!
I remember when I first started working online I didn’t know the etiquette of do you turn your camera on or don’t you? And even that has evolved over the nine years of been doing this. Moving from audio-only to video calling was an interesting transition back then. And it was because of that there was this familiarity with working on Skype like a phone call. Video was an option, but it wasn’t the default. No one ever knew when or if they should turn their video on. There was this funny thing around that… the unknown etiquette hahaha! It was uncomfortable trying to figure that out when you’re trying to put yourself forward as someone who can help them and be professional and service oriented.
David:
Yeah, the psychology of what comes up on a zoom call hahaha. If you spoke to someone in a shop it’s completely different – you’ve got your body language and energetics etc. Communication is so different online when you don’t have that. You have to communicate what you’re feeling with so many words and gestures to get what you’re feeling across. I’m sure a lot of people who are now working online will be faced with that at some point.
Danielle:
Yeah, definitely! It’s so true. When you’re working at home its different because you’re in the comfort of your own home so you have to be aware of when you are walking away when it may be more congruent with your goals and values if you stayed and worked through that and got the thing done, or had that client call or wrote that email. It’s so easy to go like, “Ah, I just got to hang the washing out”, or “I got to go to lunch”, you know? Whereas when you’re in the office you don’t have that kind of ‘out’. You’re there and you’re working (for someone else), which has it’s own pressures. You can’t just go off and decide to do some errands.
When you’re working at home, and with the situation we are currently going through in the world (Covid19 pandemic), you do have to learn how to have some awareness and manage your time and focus to be inline with what you’re actually wanting to do, you know?
David:
Yeah, focusing on that and how you communicate with yourself and others.
Danielle:
Yeah, and emoji’s don’t always cut it, hahaha! But they go half way, hahaha!
To find out more about Danielle’s The Online Biz Skills training course, visit her website:
